...In the course of their genre-shaping and lengthy career, Ministry have certainly undergone a few changes. Twenty years on now from when their searing debut hit the shelves, and four years from the last and more introspective studio album, the band are undoubtedly still as virulent as ever. Being an act of such longevity, if not a veritable institution, the first item on the agenda then had to be to ascertain how much, in their own opinion, the band have developed over these years, and in what direction.
Paul Barker is a big persona and does not shirk from giving an opinion. He began with Ministry after collaborating with Al on various projects, and made his debut on 1988’s “The Land of Rape and Honey”, and has been in the game so long that undoubtedly he knows what is about to be asked. Still however, he manages to infuse every answer with a dry wit and healthy cynicism.
“How have we progressed? I don’t know. We’re older and wiser now… well, older!”, chuckles Paul from his London hotel.
“I don’t know. I mean, although we really like this record, it’s probably not going to change the way you appreciate rock music or anything. I don’t know that there’s necessarily an overt progression there. Certainly, Al and me just wanted to make a rock record, and we decided going in there that this record should be livelier and shorter. There are three pretty long songs, but we wanted an album that had a faster pace to it.”
Though Paul makes his distaste of pigeonholing and labelling very clear, it cannot be argued that Ministry are right up there when considering the history of Industrial music as a genre and an art form. A rock record this certainly is, but a harsh and cold one at that. Whereas “Filth Pig” was a calculated reaction against the whole Industrial nametag they had been given, using warmer and more natural organic tones, this one sounds much more harsh and electronic. Do Ministry strive to attain these tones, whether digital or organic in sound?
“Gosh… I guess that’s not really an overriding concern. When we’re working on the songs, we just do whatever we feel is necessary to make it an interesting listen. When you say digital, you mean cut and paste kind of thing?”
Yes. It seems to me that the new album has haphazardness about it in some points, and some parts definitely sound very processed.
“Well, I guess that on this record, certainly more than on “Filth Pig”, we wanted to have, let’s say, a colder feel. That’s intentional.”
Also intentional is the annoying nature of the name, which, when I try to say it, is greeted with much mirth.
“We decided that we would let people like yourselves try it, and that way when you ask us how it’s pronounced, we could say “Let’s hear you try it.” that way, we can find out for ourselves exactly how it’s said [laughs]. We had that title kind of lying around for the last record, so it was one of a few ideas kicking around. We didn’t feel that the last record really suited it, though.”
Ministry have certainly been around the block. Though Al is known to have had a pretty high degree of scepticism for touring, their live show is still the stuff of legend. With a new label and a new album, though, promotion has come back on the agenda. So whom, if anyone, would Ministry want to tour with?
“The perfect tour?” he muses. “I don’t fucking know… I’m thinking that it would have to be Europe to be quite honest with you. It would have to be some festival situation. Festivals are awesome for that, and that’s ideal for us. That’s something we’ll definitely be doing in the summer. But there will be a tour right when the record comes out, and I believe we’re going to play the Astoria. It’s a different market in the States, and if we wanted to do a tour there, with our contemporaries, it would have to be with like… [thinks]… System, or… I don’t know.”
It’s long been known that fans of the band and genre purists take Ministry extremely seriously, scrutinising every output and action. This is something of an irony, as talking to Paul reveals a funny, sarcastic and carefree man, not least when on the subject of his own music.
“It rears its ugly head every so often”, he notes, regarding the contrasting perceptions of the Americans vs. the Europeans. “I’m not sure why it is, perhaps it’s a language issue. Also, not having any lyrics to go on as well doesn’t help how people perceive us, but people in Europe generally take us much more seriously than in the States.
“To be fair, though, we are going to print the lyrics on the artwork to this new album, which will be the first time we’ve done that. Also, at some stage, we are going to put all our lyrics up on the web. But there must be a fair amount of interpretation, which is what we want. We don’t want to tell people what to do - we want to titillate them. When you write about absolute specifics, you date yourself, and in ten years time you look at it and think, ‘Why did I do that?’”
I know how I sat in school with my mate ten years ago, trying to pick out the lyrics to “Jesus Built My Hotrod”, so no doubt this little nugget will come like manna from the gods to those real hardcore fans of the band. It seems that Paul maybe wants to remove at least some of the enigma surrounding them.
Going back to the beginning, it is curious that a band who were making music as different and challenging as Ministry ever got signed, not least to a major label, and even less still to an industry goliath like Warner Brothers.
“Well, that was all Al’s doing, as I didn’t start working with him till later. It was based largely on the success he had had with his dance stuff and the first few singles he put out and various other projects. He signed to Sire Records under the Warner umbrella. At that time, and it isn’t true today, but at that time, he had pretty much free reign to do whatever he wanted.”
How times have changed.
“Well, that’s not necessarily true; young bands can get signed, explode, and then dissipate really quickly. It’s a different day today, though; all those genres, sub-genres and derivatives thereof are just mainstream. There’s nothing threatening anymore. You’ve just made me think of The Prodigy, actually [laughs] – like, five years ago, everyone was like ‘My God, here’s this band that are going to undermine western music as we know it!’, when basically they are just dance with a rock image and a dull record. I know when I heard it, I was just perplexed as to what the hype was about.”
So, after splitting from Warner and much hunting for a new label, you have settled for the ever-expanding Sanctuary. Why so?
“We felt that Sanctuary could best understand what we wanted to do, and would pretty much leave us alone to do it. The money that they offered us was pretty much the same as everybody else, but they have the advantage because they are into the music. And, more importantly, they know the market – it means we don’t have to compete with overt pop acts for… well, not just funding, but when it actually comes time to promote the record, the marketing department wont be spread too thinly.”
Which, when you are in a band as big as Ministry, tends to mean a great deal. Though they shun the term, it is historical fact that, along with the likes of Throbbing Gristle, Laibach, Cabaret Voltaire and Front 242, this was a band that pioneered, spearheaded and refined Industrial music. So, does this put them up there with the greats that we all recognise as inventing other musical forms now taken for granted? Paul is typically stoic.
“Hopefully the music that we make will continue to inspire young bands”, he says, having undoubtedly been prodded with this question over many years. “That’s it really, what else is there? Everybody knows about all the seminal bands… God knows if they knew at the time if what they were doing was important, but looking back, it was very important. That must be extremely gratifying.”
Though it has undoubtedly been gratifying for Ministry to have lasted so long, they’ve had ample opportunity to explore other musical areas with their myriad side projects. I’ve almost lost count now, but many will remember the Revolting Cocks, 10000 Homo DJ’s, Acid Horse, Pig Face, Pail Head, RevCo and, of course, the inimitable Lard, fronted by Jello Biafra. One wonders whether Ministry just isn’t sufficient to sate the pair’s musical whims, or whether their recurring income is just very dear to their hearts.
“It’s a bit of both for sure”, replies Paul honestly. “There’s stuff that we’ve worked on ostensibly under the guise of Ministry, but that has had to be mothballed – because it didn’t fit on the record, or because we lost the feeling for it. So we would work with friends, and maybe someone else would put a vocal or something on it. That would then push it further away from the Ministry banner, and so we could do something with it. Also, we were just in the position where we could do what we wanted to, so why not? We had basically 24 hours a day to devote simply to music back then. Things are different now, and our time constraints are pretty well-defined – whatever, it’s just the way it goes. We’re more tied up with Ministry, but yeah, we’ll definitely do another Lard record. We haven’t spoken to him directly, but it will happen.”
Ministry made it into the big league 'round about the time of the grunge explosion in '91/'92. They were afforded second place on the then huge Lollapalooza tour, famed for crossing America with a diverse and influential set of then important bands, some all the more legendary today. But that tour and the one that succeeded it were also accompanied by a hedonism that ultimately took its toll. After all the allegations of exploding busses and marathon drug use, the band must surely have some fond memories to look back on.
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